Dissecting Dispensationalism: Pt 1 The Protocols of Zion

(Disclaimer: i do support the right of Israel to exist as a country, and acknowledge that believing in Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to eternal life. That said, i have respect for Judaism as i do other faiths, but acknowledge that Christ is THE way. any comments defending Jews, or not defending Jews are because i believe the stance to be true.)



The Protocols

Like Dracula, the Protocols of Zion just keep coming back. "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" are basically bandied about as the plans of a "secret Jewish conspiracy to take over the world" by purchasing, then controlling everything. That's my understanding anyways, and since it doesn't involve a man with a scarred face and a Persian cat, I'm inclined to think it's too silly to be true.

Read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

As far as I know, no serious scholar accepts these as legitimate. On top of that, they were debunked quite a long time ago.

How does it relate to dispensationalism?

They're only tangentally related, having their origins in Russia. The Protocols are connected only because people within dispensationalism have used them as proof for one thing or another.

This article mentions a dispensational minister using them to blame Jews for various ills.

http://www.nyu.edu/fas/projects/vcb/ChristianMedia/timeline/timeline5.html


And a fascinating article that provides evidence that some other dispensationalists used to accept the Protocols. Dispensationalists have since flip-flopped into nearly unwavering support for Israel as a nation. The article also explains why there has been a change of heart.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/north7.html


So there's your tenuous connection to dispensationalism. Dispensationalists used to believe Jews were the bane of all people, but now provide overwhelming support for Jews and Israel.

Why is it the Protocols were used to support dispensationalism, but now refute it?

My take, is that those who support Israel carte blanche, may actually want the protocols to be true and those against a "favortism" of Jews/Israel would use the Protocols as proof of evil. Both are extremely dangerous positions to hold.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/williamson3.html

So, are the Protocols legit?

We see they spread confusion. It also resulted in quite alot of antisemitism, and were used as rationale to kill millions of Jews.

If they were true, confusion would be transformed into understanding.

2 Corinthians 14:33

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."


Well, let's get to it.

A book about the protocols is finding acceptance in the Arabic and Muslim world. Interesting, since "those people" are typically the boogie-man du jour and supposedly always out to get everyone, especially Israel. One would think they would least like the Protocols to be false, yet they are readily accepting the truth that the Protocols are lies.

http://fighthatred.com/fighting-hate/reports/791-arabic-book-debunks-protocols-of-zion-

The above wiki at the beginning of this post on the Protocols provides a side-by-side comparison of the works quoted below.

"In 1921 the Times of London published convincing proof that The Protocols were largely plagiarized from books published decades earlier—primarily The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, by Maurice Joly (1864) and Biarritz by Hermann Goedsche (1868)."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060911-zion.html

The article is good too. It goes on to claim that Russia (where the Protocols came from) has declared them fraudulent, and that even the Nazis knew they were false.

They also quote Joseph Goebbels' OWN WORDS:

"I believe that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a forgery … [However,] I believe in the intrinsic, but not in the factual, truth of The Protocols,"

I don't know about you, but Goebbels' opinion that these are a forgery is the only thing I'd ever agree with him on.

And another article that highlights the plagiarism. If you have any doubts that the Protocols are fake, this article should remove those quite well.

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/protzion/DelaCruzProtocolsMain.htm


Despite the overwhelming proof the Protocols are not a legitimate document, there are people who still believe them. Though I couldn't find anyone who could prove their veracity, especially in light of the evidence of forgery, many people still hold to them.

This below article is pretty representative of some of the "truth" claims. That is, they just kind of ignore the forgery claims, or worse, poo-poo them without looking at the evidence. Maybe I'm doing that on the opposing side, but the evidence of fraud is, in my opinion, airtight.

I completely disagree with this author as he claims the Bible is nothing but proof that the Jews have it out for everyone.


http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm


The problem is, they attack the idea that Israel in the Bible is God's chosen people using the Canaanite conquest as proof that Jews feel superior. I've already addressed that here: (http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/09/wrath-of-god-is-god-really-genocidal.html)
and here: (http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/09/wipe-outall-of-them-why-would-good-and.html) that the conquest of Canaan had little or nothing to do with "racial superiority". While there was landgrabbing, this too is addressed.

This "proof" article also claims that Jews want to enslave all gentiles, but nothing could be further from the truth. Rather, God has always wanted to use Jews (and now Christians) to draw gentiles as well as Jews into right relationship with Him. All are sinners, yet God chose us if we accept His offer. Israel, historically was always meant to be a light, an example to the gentiles. So where is the "proof" that Jews and Israel were meant to enslave gentiles?

Here's proof that God intended the opposite.


Deuteronomy 10:19

"Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."


The entire book of Jonah is dedicated to a Jew, Jonah, leading a group of gentiles-mortal enemies of the Jews no less-to repentence.


Isaiah 42

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 49

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Luke 2

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.


No need to reinvent the wheel. The Protocols of Zion, are in fact nothing more than a reworded plagiarism of an older pulbication. They are not true in any sense of the word. Rather than spending any more time debunking them, maybe someone should prove them. I recommend by starting with addressing the clear evidence of plagiarism.

I have no doubt that there is a plan to "take over the world", but it is not the Jews or Israel. Or even a particular group, a "THEY". Rather, it is Satan as outlined in the book of Daniel and Revelation using various groups to eventually enthrone himself as god. Satan is "god of this world" and as such is the true motivating force behind globalism.

2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Dissecting Dispensationalism: Prologue

Dissecting Dispensationalism: Prologue

Yet another topic thanks to Bro LA Marzulli's blog (and Sandie). Sandie had asked me to address dispensationalism, and linked me a few things that are all addressed after this.

I apologize that I'm not 100% clear on the issue, at first glance, some of the things I saw appeared to be unrelated. Once i started digging though, things coalesced and things started falling into place.

This topic is from a hotly debated subject, that is: Dispensationalism, Israel, the Millenial reign of Christ, Ezekiel 37 and the Jews.

This also entails the fact that there's something of a divide among some Christians that: either the current nation of Israel is God's chosen people (fulfilling Ezekiel 37), is equivalent to the ancient nation of Israel and (some believe) should have carte blanche to do anything, and the opposing view that Israel is not necessarily Biblical Israel but is actually part of a Jewish plot to take over the world. the second group also tends to lean towards replacement theology and that there is no Millenial Reign of Christ.

That is the debate, as near as I figure, in a nutshell. I'm sure I've made everyone angry, but for simplicity's sake, i had to generalize.

Part of the debate is posted here:

http://www.thewatchmanforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1314

And some general background info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._I._Scofield


(From the below linked article)

"Dispensationalists believe that the nation of Israel (not necessarily the same as the state of Israel) is distinct from the Christian Church,and that God has yet to fulfill His promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon His return, will rule the world from Jerusalem[3] for a thousand years. In other areas of theology, dispensationalists hold to a wide range of beliefs within the evangelical and fundamentalist spectrum."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism

My Presuppositional Bias:

Without fully realizing it , i guess i fall in with this general idea i quoted. So, you know the bias i start from. The reason being, is that if you read certain prophecies in the Bible, there are a number yet to be fulfilled (like Zechariah 14; Book of Revelation). I don't think anyone in their right mind could say that those have happened yet. So, I believe Christ has yet to return and will reign literally and visibly for 1000 years. I believe God also has promises to keep to Israel. But will this change in the coming weeks?


Who's right?

I'm inclined to look at Scofield skeptically. We're not concerned with him in any event right now, other than to acknowledge he made the theory of dispensationalism popular.

I also see the danger in dispensationalism. If you read the wiki, the section of Judaism is where I think some Christians go a tad too far.

This is a huge HUGE topic, one not easily addressed.

We can start to unravel some of this topic by looking at dispensationalism and its components. These sort of all fit into the dispensationalism bag.

Here's a breakdown of topics for the coming weeks

1) The protocols of the Elders of Zion

2) The Star of David

3) Ezekiel 37 and the nation of Israel

4) What do the Jews think?

5) Jesus' return and 1,000 year reign

whew!

OK kids, that's all the blog for right now!

Come back in afew weeks when I take a break from UFOs (for a very long time)

Merry Christmas!

UFOs and Abductions Part 3: Alien-Human Hybrids (aka Nephilim Hybrids)

This blog is pretty much 100% pure speculation. Again, the culmination of the conflicting accounts i've encountered in studying UFOs over the years.

To start with, not only am i late to the party (as usual) i also kind of hate looking into the alien hybrid/modern nephilim phenomena. I would rather not have addressed it, but i kind of felt led to, since i covered the dark spiritual side, and the human involvement. I hate it because there's no real, tangible evidence of hybrids, and there's so much weird stuff that goes on with it. Or if there is, it's open to interpretation.

It also accomplishes two of satan's goals just by existing. It distracts, and it destroys. Some people (no one in particular in mind...really!) spend way too much time worrying about hybrids everywhere. I used to. It also destroys by setting believers of differing opinions against each other. It caused quite a quarrel among many believers i highly respect a year or so ago.

As if the Christian church didn't have enough things to fight over. We've added one more to the list, except when we fight over this one, we really throw people off. Few of us "kooks" dispute that Genesis 6 and afterwards there were nephilim-human/angel hybrids. The debate is whether or not it's happening now or not as part of the UFO phenomena. Many abductees report breeding programs taking place as part of their experiences.

Some Christian researchers use a number of texts to support their viewpoint. The Book of I Enoch (quoted in the book of Jude and Peter in the Bible.) Genesis 6 and Daniel 2 (though i'm not fully convinced that the iron mixing with clay in Daniel 2 means there's nephilim. It's often asked who is the "they" where it says "they shall mingle themselves...") still, most of the rest do refer to nephilim of Genesis 6, initially the offspring of fallen angels and human women.

No problem, except the aforementioned Daniel, which i could be wrong on. I have other theories on Daniel 2, for some other time perhaps. My basic thought is the iron mixed with clay is "hard" governments like communism/dictatorships as iron. Clay, is the democratic governments of the world. People are made of "clay" in Genesis, so maybe governments "of the people mean" mean clay. Communism and democracy don't mingle all that well. At least they never used to.

But i digest.

So, the flood of Noah wiped the nephilim out. Done deal.

The problem comes with the nephilim after the flood (Og,Conquest off Canaan, David vs Goliath). Did more fallen angels mate with human women after the flood? Are they doing it now? That's where the split is. Where did the post flood nephilim come from? Some think that more angels came and mated with women again.

My thoughts are, if the angels that did this the first time were put into the abyss, outlined in Enoch, Jude and Peter, why would more angels jump to do it again? Sure, they were going to be put there eventually anyways, but why hasten the trip?

If i knew i was going to jail in 20 years for something, but had 20 years of freedom to enjoy i'd enjoy my 20 years. But if say, commiting crime X would get me there immediately, i would avoid crime X. But, fallen angels are insane, after all, they did, as finite creatures, rebel against an infinite God (having been with Him even!) so who knows what their thought processes are like.

Perhaps a few angels took the fall, did the deed and got thrown in the abyss, while the other fallen are still loose. These nephilim propagated again after the flood, but kept their numbers down to keep God from acting against them. That's 100% speculation.

At any rate, for more on post flood nephiilim, i covered that here http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/09/wipe-outall-of-them-why-would-good-and.html and another link in that blog.

Check out Dante Fortson's King Wells interviews for more on that. I don't have a link, but it should be in iTunes, or Bro. Dante can find the link for you. You'll have to do the legwork on that one. Dante also has a book "In the Days of Noah" that might be worth a look, that may get into more of this.

At any rate, the split among us kooks is, are angels or demons disguising themselves as aliens and making more nephilim through UFO abductions? Both sides have good evidence. Having looked at both sides, i can't say that i can really decide myself. Personally, i do lean more towards the hybrids being an illusion.

Let's start with Joe Jordan's illusion view.

http://www.alienresistance.org/ce4testimonies.htm

I have heard Joe speak on several interviews and he maintains that ALL alien abductions are illusions. His main proof of this is that he was doing an over the phone deliverence with a guy. This guy said they were taking him, and when he had been "taken" his wife picked up the phone and said he had just passed out. This happened several times, the guy was convinced that he went somewhere, but he actually didn't.

I'm sure the above link corroborates that story in other testimonies.

Using stories like that, Jordan posits that the hybrid encounters are actually illusions as well. Illusions designed to form a bond with the demons, making it harder to get free from them. The demons are presenting illusory children to take advantage of maternal and paternal instincts in abductees, which would make the abductee desire more contacts.

I can completely believe this.

However, the flipside of this issue is the physical evidence, or physical encounters with alleged hybrids. After all, how do you explain the physical evidence of an abduction, the scoop marks, and implants and what not? If it's a spiritual mental thing, there should be no physical traces. That's where satan's human agents, whoever THEY may be, come into play as discussed in my last blog.

Anyways, onto some of those who support the physical hybrid arguments.

LA Marzulli posted on his blog that someone encountered a possible hybrid in a shopping mall. I probably made some comment in there somewhere, see if you can find it!

http://lamarzulli.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/hybrids-among-us-nephilim/

Weird.

There's also a book called "Raechel's Eyes" about an alleged hybrid "THEY" were trying to integrate into society, except this one failed. I haven't read it, but heard the story somewhere. It was weird, but another one of those ones that's hard to prove.

Betty Andreasson in "Watchers" saw a woman's baby taken from the womb, then placed into a container to finish gestating. This was apparently a baby grey or a hybrid. It wasn't clear. That book is weird anyways, and i would gather there was alot of demonic illusion going on, so maybe this should really be in the first section. The interesting thing though is it triggered an emotional response in Betty.

Then there's Dr. David Jacobs' "The Threat." This book goes through a number of cases where abductees produced hybrids and somehow Jacobs came to a realization that these hybrids were being integrated into our society for some unknown end. Of course, at least some of this data was collected by use of hypnosis, so i would wonder if all or any of it is trustworthy. That seems to be the general problem with UFO alien-human hybrids, there is little in the form of actual physical proof. Still, Jacobs makes a compelling case.

Tom Horn has some interesting thoughts to add to this debate. He maintains that the nephilim in Genesis 6 weren't JUST the children of angels, but also DNA hybrids of animals too. Chimeras. Verse 12 does say that ALL flesh had been corrupted. So perhaps some of every species and most of humanity was hybridized and genetically modified to some extent.

Another weird one, but it would explain the legends of centaurs, satyrs and the like. What makes this relevant now is the transhumanism movement.

This isn't science fiction either. Earlier this year, scientists had admitted to growing 150 human-animal hybrids in a lab. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2017818/Embryos-involving-genes-animals-mixed-humans-produced-secretively-past-years.html

Why would they be doing this?

Sure these were JUST embryos, but the article says there are hybrids being grown in countries WITHOUT regulation. This story is just what we've been told about, how do we know there aren't human animal hybrids that were grown to full term?

Now this was just a lab, not a UFO or abduction scenario, but how do we know there aren't any of those?

So IF there are nephilim around now, why don't we see them?

One argument is that the UFO breeding programs are designed to make the nephilim fit in more.

One theory of mine is that bigfoot, if physical, is a nephilim. I first heard this in a podcast, of course, and it was an interview with a guy who's studied sasquatch for 50 years, since the age of 12. His name escapes me. But at any rate, he maintained that there are a number of UFO flaps that also involve an uptick in bigfoot sightings too.

Here are some articles i found on a message board.

http://www.ufomystic.com/2009/04/09/bigfoot-and-ufos-2/

http://www.w-files.com/files/bfpicklepatch.html

This one is the best. The bigfoot were fired upon, seemingly with no effect, AND there was the smell of sulfur, which has allegedly been reported with a few alien encounters and of course, demonic manifestation.

http://www.mombu.com/aviation/unidentified-flying-objects/t-25-years-ago-today-a-scary-bigfootufo-encounter-3254395.html

Of course, the bigfoot theory may not hold water. There are reports of bigfoot being shot point blank with no effect. If bigfoot were a nephilim, then logically it should have died from a gunshot like the rest of the nephilim in the Bible. This sort of case suggests bigfoot may be yet another illusory demonic manifestation.

Wow, that was a rabbit trail. So aside from the actual creation of human animal hybrids in a lab, there's really little to no physical evidence for alien-human nephilim being made.

However, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. An underground eugenics program run by people and demonic beings under cover of a UFO invasion would fit nicely with satan's earlier, public eugenics plans at the beginning of the 20th century. It certainly has a better PR spin.

That aside, debating hybrids, and looking into it will take you down MANY rabbit trails, many of them into David Icke or New Age/UFO places which is really not a good use of time.

And, even if there is a nephilim/underground eugenics, we are not told about it explicitly in the Bible. Yes, Jesus says Matthew 24 that the end of days would be "like the days of Noah". Does that mean modern nephilim? Some think so, especially in light of the iron mixing with clay in Daniel 2.

But notice one thing. Even if Jesus and Daniel are warning about nephilim in the last days, they don't say believers should do anything about it! We're not supposed to try to stop these programs. We probably can't. We shouldn't live in fear of hybrids among us like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". God alone will deal with them.

Although Paul tells us:

Epeshians 5:11 - 13

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

And Jesus tells us:

Matthew 10:28 - 30

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

But the very hairs of your head are all numbered."

So what should Christians do and think about the hybrid phenomena?

We should probably have a basic knowledge about the phenomena, so we can answer those in the conspiracy realm, and use it as a witnessing tool for Christ. Perhaps use someone's interest in alien-human hybrids to tell them it happened before, in Genesis 6, and here's what God will do about it in the end, then show them Revelation, and share the Gospel.

Aside from that, there's really nothing else we can do about it. God alone will deal with it when His Son Jesus Christ returns, ala Revelation 19.



Appendix

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2011-11-17T16_19_15-08_00.mp3


http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2011-11-20T15_38_00-08_00.mp3

Neph

UFOs and Abductions part 2: What do Christians say About Physical Evidence

None of this is really my original idea, as i think this is basically a summary of watching too much X-Files, 4 years of listening to Future Quake, Russ Dizdar, LA Marzulli, and a lifetime of reading and studying about UFOs and conspiracies. It's really just a melange of thoughts on just about everything i've ever come across. So, none of this is new.

This is the second version of this article. The first version, i don't know what happened, but it focused more on my working, half-(expletive deleted) theory on who was responsible. Quite honestly, I have 0 evidence, and it really doesn't matter WHO is the human party(ies) involved. What does matter, and what some Christians overlook, is that there is physical evidence of "alien" abductions.

Satan has quite often in his various schemes resorted to using human agents to achieve his goals. Judas Iscariot comes to mind, as does Haman from the book of Esther.

So too with the alien abduction phenomena. While many abductions can be explained as purely demonic phenomena as outlined in article one of this mini-series, and the piles of evidence Joe Jordan and others have compiled.

But there's a huge question that the demonic theory doesn't address. If alien abduction is a purely a spiritual phenomena, why would there be physical evidence?

Some of this physical evidence includes: scoop marks on the skin, waking up in other people's clothes(!) bizarre implants made of unknown materials, residue on an abductee that glows in UV light, an alien hand print on a window and crashed UFOs. This is just a taste. Not every abductee has this stuff going on, but many do.

A famous example of physical evidence is Dr. Roger Leir and the number of "alien" implants that he has removed from people, and when analyzed they exhibit odd properties and emit various electronic transmissions. I'm sure LA Marzulli has some good info on him, so check out the "Alien Interviews". (No, i don't get any money from him, it's just a decent book.)

Where is this physical evidence come from if the greys (or whoever) are only demons?

I personally wouldn't rule out physical effects resulting from some spiritual encounters. The Apostle Paul encountered Jesus and fell off of his horse, and was blinded. Jacob "wrestled with God" and then his hip was injured. Angels have destroyed armies in the Old Testament.

Since abductions are spiritual typically, i believe this could explain some physical evidence.

But there's another angle to consider.

I had a brief correspondence with a Christian podcaster, and he had mentioned on one of his shows about the demon/alien thing being an illusion. I asked him "what about the physical evidence?" He replied via audio (which was super cool) that implants and such probably come from the usual rogue's gallery of the globalist/luciferian people (hereafter referred to as "THEY").

They explained that this could account for the connections with satanic ritual abuse that is supposedly prevalent in alien abductees. It also accounts for the massive harassment by humans in say, Stan Romanek's case.

I was shocked, and yet, it made an incredible amount of sense. It also reminded me of something that i've heard of before.

Joe Montaldo of ICAR (abduction research) frequently refers to "milabs" on his radio shows. He is a really thorough researcher and abductee (with a lot of bias supporting the ET theory) who has collected an enormous amount of abduction data. What is a milab? Milab is short for "military abductions". I don't have specific shows to link to, as I rarely listen to him, but on his ICAR page, he has a link to milabs. While he means military, and probably US Government, I'm content to chalk it up to unknown human agents. Probably serving Satan. Again, THEY.

Here are some of those links, pray up first though, as he could easily lead you astray. Stay rooted in Jesus Christ, and the knowledge that this is meant to deceive. I haven't looked too close at these, mainly because I'm not that into UFOs and abductions anymore, but i am familiar enough with his work to know he doesn't believe in Christ, and supports an ETI hypothesis. Still, his evidence and articles probably have some decent take aways, even if i disagree with his conclusions.

Again, do not be led astray.

General Articles
http://www.icar1.com/MILAB.html

Betty and Barney Hill encounter a "space nazi"
http://www.icar1.com/Betty---Barnie-Hill---Milabs.html

A random case
http://www.icar1.com/investagation2.html

Audio interviews
http://www.icar1.com/Research-Archives-Alien-Abduction.html

One example of a milab is the Betty and Barney Hill Case. Montaldo maintains that the Hills were in fact first taken by "aliens," then later on by the milab folks, which accounts for the contradictions in their stories. I wouldn't be surprised if he was right about an actual "alien" abduction followed by a human one.

There are people who would want to access "alien" information, and there's also human agents just open to doing bad stuff (See the Boeche and Redfern links on previous post) or maybe checking how their experiment went.

Other abductees who seem to have been taken by aliens/demons, and later by milab are:

Whitely Strieber (described i believe in his second book, but the humans had an alien with supposedly.)

Stan Romanek (if not a milab, THEY supposedly break into his house alot.)

Betty Andreasson (again, perhaps not milab, but she reported odd helicopters around her house)

That's just a few.

While one can point fingers and blame certain parties, it really doesn't matter who is doing it. Or even why. The physical evidence in at least some abductions comes from human hands for unknown reasons.

Another thing to consider is that some UFOs, are actually very likely man-made. Whether or not these man-made crafts participate in abductions, is up for debate. But it may explain UFO crashes and such.

These human craft may have been given by demonic inteligence, "UFO" technology. Some claim the Nazis got this, and hence made strides towards making these craft. This theory is everywhere, "Atlantis Magazine" recently featured nazi UFOs, and it also comes up alot in UFO literature and sci-fi with the forthcoming "Iron Sky" film.

Whether it's actually Nazis or not, i don't think it really matters. This is just where i think THEY got the technology from. Take a look at the following links. It may be wholly wrong, because it makes too much sense.

Also, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Nazis

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs

http://www.stevequayle.com/High.Jump/Vril.and.Andromeda.html

I also recently saw this kind of stuff in the Captain America Movie, and the X-Men Forever comics.

In the "SS Brotherhood of the Bell" by Joseph Farrell, outlines a good case as to why the Nazi's "lost" the war. They had advanced technology, and just went underground with it to continue their ideology, experiments, eugenics stuff and whatnot undisturbed.

Farrell also hints that the bell as being the culprit behind the kecksburg UFO crash, which looked like an acorn, that is BELL. Others have alluded to this as well.

Jim Wilhelmson (i think) said this would also explain the Stephensville lights from a few years ago. A pastor allegedly took video of the lights, and saw flying bell shaped craft. He gave the video to Linda Moulton Howe, and it has yet to be shown to anyone.

Thanks Linda, for your unbiased research and willingness to share knowledge.

"Fate Magazine" had an article about UFOs in the south pole discovered by Admiral Byrd's expedition. This article hinted at a Nazi connection.

Nikola Tesla also had invented alot of stuff, including a theory on making "flying cars" and zeropoint energy. My theory is he was behind the 1897 UFO flap. Perhaps his technology was developed too.

Feel free to dig deeper and come up with your own conclusions. There is alot of controversial evidence, and we are left with questions as to who is doing it, and exactly why. At the very least, there is plenty of evidence answering why there is physical evidence for a spiritual phenomena.

In the end, it doesn't matter who is doing it. We know, as told in the book of Revelation that Jesus Christ wins, and sends those serving Satan into Hell with their master. Jesus wins at the end of the book.



Appendix

Russ Dizdar gives a look at UFOs as a plan to create a nephilim sort of antichrist.

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2011-11-20T15_38_00-08_00.mp3

UFOs and Abductions Part 1: Dark Spiritual Encounters

This mini series is scant on scripture, mainly because not alot of specifics came to my mind. This post, is mostly an Ephesians 6:12 thing.

In the body of Christ, there's already a number of good folks talking about UFOs. Much of what i have to say is in this series in well line with what they say. I also don't pay as much attention to UFOs as i used to, and won't make a habit of writing about them. This miniseries is basically taking the major threads of publicly available UFOlogy info and trying to make sense of it all from a Christian perspective. It's pure speculation on my part.

It's a mishmash of the Christian folks and sold out UFO = extraplanetary stuff folks.

There are others like Joe Jordan, LA Marzulli, Dante Fortson and Guy Malone among others who do this sort of thing more often and better than me. Even though they disagree on alot, they all have good evidence for their claims.

When looking at alien abductions, we have few options as to who is doing them. A brief look for the one or two of you who have never heard of alien abduction: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

The general consensus in the field of abductions is that the abductors are one of the following:

1) aliens from another planet that's an absurd distance away

2) extra dimensional beings

3) demonic beings (as described in the Bible)

4) humans using the alien thing as a smoke screen for whatever they are doing. (This was explored in the "X-Files" and comes up occasionally in ICAR's investigations (more on ICAR later))

5) some combination of one of more of the above

6) some sort of physical being meant to look alien


#1- Aliens

It's quite easy to discredit this one based on logically looking at the claims of those who have been contacted by so-called "aliens". I have alot of questions here, that should at least shed some reasonable doubt here.

Why are aliens travelling absurd distances to mutilate cows (allegedly), take people in the night and basically rape them? Why would they need to make hybrids with flawed human beings? Why travel so far to give people spiritual advice?

One claim is they can't reproduce, and thus have to make human-alien hybrids. Where do new grays come from if they can't reproduce?

Betty Andreasson claimed that they did (through people) in "Watchers", yet other accounts I believe she claimed these were grays and not hybrids or that they were modified humans of some sort, that became grays. OK, but this contradicts the claims of other grays saying they're from space and the claims that they can't reproduce. If this works for one set of grays, why do some do it different?

So again, where do new greys come from? A single gray likely could not live for thousands of years, yet if greys have been here for millenia as some claim, how are they able to do so? Let's say alien fred came here 5000 years ago, the died of extreme old age 300-500 years later. How can his species still be around right now, 5000 years later if they can't reproduce?

Certainly grey aliens can't last for thousands of years, they'd have to make new ones to still have greys today, or else they would have died off long ago.

Cloning is an option, but if they can use cloning to perpetuate the species, why not keep doing it? And if you say that cloning works for now, but eventually will lead to extinction or genetic abnormalities, then how have they used it for so long with no problems? Why a sudden need for hybridization over thousands of years?

Also, why do aliens travel billions of miles to "correct" our religions and theology? Why do they tell us that any religion except Christianity is the right path "for you"? And when they tell us spiritual "truth" why does it often contradict itself, and other "space faiths"? These are a few examples from "UFO Religions" by Gregory Reece, a book about religions supposedly started by aliens. Again, why travel interstellar distances to give earth people re-dressed paganism?

The Urantia book claims different things than the book of Mormon. They both were given by "advanced beings" with an outer-space connection. If true, shouldn't they corroborate each other? Why do Mormons say God is an evolved human now living on Kolob, and that Jesus is "God's" first son and Satan's brother, while the Urantians claim that Jesus is really the angel Michael?

Why do Billy Meier's aliens say that Christ was a reincarnation of some ascended being? How would they even know who He is? How is this "true", when other aliens claim they made Him? (I don't know specific cases, but I recall reading that some greys have claimed that they had made Jesus.)

Why do the Aetherius people claim that Jesus was an incarnation of a master? Why does the Nation of Islam say the UFOs will destroy all white people, while others say the UFOs are here to help us? Other aliens supposedly told Hitler (documented in Mein Kampf, according to Joe Montaldo) to do the things he did. Why didn't the aliens just do it, and why would they want Hitler to do it? The "good cop, bad cop" only explains so much. Both sides have similar non-Christian beliefs.

The Raelians claim that their aliens created Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed to teach the world. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion) if that's the case, why do the teachings of these people contradict each other? (See also http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/10/was-jesus-really-just-good-teacher-then.html). Why does this group of aliens contradict the others?

Why do only Scientologists mention Xenu? Why do no other UFO religions mention Thetans, or the other stuff Scientologists believe? Why did a Thetan-cleared Scientologist start the Eckankar religion?

Benjamin Creme has yet another spin on it on Jesus and the goals of the aliens to bring a "world teacher" called Maitreya. Again, this contradicts Nation of Islam's goals.

In short, why do all of these religion's founding aliens have these absurd stories to tell people, and why do their theologies not only disagree with each other, but also disagree with the Bible and who Jesus is?

Why do they travel so far to sell reincarnation which some faiths here already endorse? Why do they all contradict the Bible?

Surely there are better things to do once you've travelled that far. To use a familiar abduction example, we don't fly to the north pole to tranq polar bears, anal probe and make hybrids with them, then tell them it's for their own good, and by the way, what you believe is wrong. Why would aliens do that? It's illogical.

Aliens from so far away would likely have very little knowledge of our faiths, unless they'd been here forever as some argue. But then if there are ancient aliens, and they made our religions, why do none of the religions agree? Muslims can't agree with Hindus, and Jews and Christians with either or each other. Why is it these faiths disagree, especially if these aliens gave them to us for our benefit? Wouldn't it be better "spiritual truth" if the stories supported each other?

In Star trek, the Ferengi have a saying: "keep your lies consistent." Apparently ET hasn't learned the rules of acquisition.

The Bible alone is internally consistent, despite having more that 40 different authors across hundreds, and even thousands of years. Most of these authors never knew each other, yet there are consistent themes and symbolism all throughout. If the Bible is made up, how can this be?

Even the star wars novel series written across less than 40 years by maybe fewer authors can't even manage to get the color of lightsabers right, or the bios of certain characters right, and they have a team of "experts" keeping watch to make sure things stay consistent.

So too with the new age and "space" revelations. They have have had 50 (perhaps thousands if you buy the ancient aliens THEORY.) of years to get their story straight, and have yet to do so. Any group of aliens spouting "truth" should at least be consitent with each other if it's really true.

It shouldn't surprise us though, that these "aliens" preach stories that contradict each other. It also shouldn't surprise us they also talk about a different Jesus. For these aliens from the stars are really "angels from heaven" or demons in disguise.

False Jesus-es (like Rael, Billy Meier) and false paths of spirituality were foretold nearly 2000 years ago in the Bible.

Matthew 24

V 5

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

V 24-26

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=24&v=1&t=KJV#1

(See also Mark 13 and Luke 21)


Galatians 1:6 - 9

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gal&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#1

Funny how the Bible can readily explain the "false gospels" of ET so easily.


#2 - Extradimensional Aliens/ Advanced Beings

Some will say that the aliens from other planets are also on a "higher physical plane". OK, but they still fall into the same pitfalls as above. Also, why would a "higher" being need to hybridize with a lower? Like a man with an ape, say? It does the ape no favors, and the human none either. Like the nephilim, offspring of human and angel, they reportedly hated their angelic fathers, and also hated humanity (Book of Enoch). They killed people like crazy, which is one possible reason for the flood.

These "higher beings" also should have their story straight, but haven't got it right after millenia. They do after all, have the advantage of "being more evolved and on a higher plane". So if they're so advanced, why is it so easy to debunk their claims? Whether they're from another star/planet and/or from a "higher plane", they suffer the same mistakes.

The Bible supports this extra-dimensional view, except the "exradimensional being" are called fallen angels (sons of God, Genesis 6), and demons. These beings in the Bible are always seeking to draw people away from God, Jesus Christ and the Bible, which is often what "aliens" are found to be doing. They also try to focus worship onto themselves and will never lead you or anyone else to the truth.


#3-Demonic Beings

This looks really likely, in light of the above and the many testimonies here:

http://www.alienresistance.org/ce4testimonies.htm

Also, go to LA Marzulli's site and get his e-version of alien interviews. That will be pretty much confirmation of this.

Whitley Strieber has also said in his book "Communion" that it was like he had been visited by the demons of old. I recall seeing Carl Sagan say much the same thing citing that the demon encounters of old were near identical to alien encounters. Of course he poo-pooed them both.

I also demonstrated this theory in my multipart look at Betty Andreasson's case.

http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/01/alien-abduction-autopsy-betty.html

Interestingly, Andreasson learns her greys call themselves "watchers" which is the title of the fallen angels in the Book of Enoch. Are they the same? I can't say.

Here's an interesting case that supports the view of demons.

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0109/abductions-stopped.html

An interesting case which could also support this view is the Billy Meier (EVERYONE knows about him) case. Though this was pretty much torn to pieces by Open Minds Radio in their recent magazine and shows. They have good evidence to support that Meier is a fraud, and his story often contradicts itself. Joe Montaldo of ICAR has in the past speculated that Meier had some real experiences, then they stopped and then he did alot of the fraud stuff to keep it going.

I agree with Joe, that Meier had encounters, then produced fake pictures and stuff just to stay in the spotlight. His contact with alleged aliens fits quite well with the demonic theory.

Semjase an "alien" who contacted Meier, has a name which is quite close to Semjaza in the Book of Enoch. Meier and his crew refute this by saying the pronunciation is different...that's just semantics as far as I'm concerned. "Eye-gor" vs Ee-gor is still the same humpback helping Young Frankenstein.

At any rate, Meier supposedly gets "prophetic" words and predictions from his supposed contacts, which if true, are not messages from the Pleieades, but messages from Satan. They teach lies about Jesus, and claim Meier is an equal with Christ. See Galatians 1 above.

These aliens claim that they are not only aliens, but on something like the equivalent of another dimension which is why most of us can't see them. I wonder who else is like that? Right. Demons. This is the sort of alien you see working in "Ashtar Command" or various galactic federations. You also see this with Blossom Goodchild, who channels not only dead spirits, but New Age messages from "space brothers."

Lynn Dickie (set the captives free) used to do "Lightworker" stuff, like reiki and i believe channellings. They claimed to be aliens and had her take many pictures of UFOs. When she came to Christ, they revealed their true nature.

The most damning evidence that "alien" abductions, and the UFO phenomena is demonic/satanic is that Aleister Crowley, who admittedly practiced "magick", encountered an entity, Lam, which looks quite similar to the alien greys. The author of the following article mentions that many Crowleynian magicians seek out the Betty Andreasson "Watchers II" book. This article explores the connection in depth. Armor up first though.

http://www.boudillion.com/lam/lam.htm

We know in the Bible that those who practice witchcraft (like Crowley), are really in touch with demons. 1 Corinthians 10 explains that those who worship idols (which is pretty much a magical ritual) really are praying to devils.

2 Corinthians 11 tells us that Satan presents himself as an angel of light, which would explain the "nordic" aliens, as well as the aliens of all stripes that present themselves as here for our good. 1 Timothy 4 tells us that people will believe "doctrines of demons" which is exactly what people are doing when they start following the teachings of these "aliens".


#4 -Humans

Will be covered more in depth in the next article which covers what ICAR calls "milabs". I really don't know much about this aside from whats out there in podcasts. Actually really anything outside of Joe Montaldo, and one of Strieber's books.

There was also an interview with Open Minds that Alejandro Rojas did with Gabe Valdez (and later Norio Hayakawa sp?) That may be related. This article gets into that a bit, you can probably dig the interviews up at open minds' archives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/alejandro-rojas/cattle-mutiliations_b_932711.html

#5-Some Sort of Hodgepodge

The fact that so many stories are so different, yet also similar suggests that one, or more of the above are occuring.

We can see there is demonic power at work, and there is good evidence of human involvement also, though i would not venture to what extent there is. Human involvement would explain why there is physical evidence, such as crashes, implants and so on in an otherwise spiritual phenomena.

I also once read an article by someone who claimed that as a child, they were ritually abused and also dressed as an alien while adult earth-humans did the abduction scenario. I really wish i had a link on this. This would explain the satanic ritual abuse connection cited in so many abductions.

This idea was sort of explored in the "X-Files" episode, "Jose Chung's From Outerspace." Must see.

But human involvement doesn't explain how abductions can be stopped in Christ's name. This situation was also one article, without any real attribution, so i can't vett it in any event. Take that merely as a possibility, i don't think this could explain every abduction.

If you want to dig deeper into possible human involvement with UFOs, Nick Redfern and Ray Boeche have been partial to interviews on Future Quake.

http://futurequake.com/Audio/FQShow231.mp3

http://futurequake.com/Audio/FQShow211.mp3

We also know that Satan sometimes works in concert with humans, using them, as in the cases of Haman, and Judas. So, seeing a collaboration in the UFO phenomena should be expected.


#6-some sort of physical being, meant to look like aliens

This one gets out there. I don't have much in the form of links, just what i've randomly stumbled across researching UFOs.

There's the aforementioned "dress up" scenario, where humans play the part of aliens.

There's an option that grays are some sort of robot, or golem/homonculous. That is, some sort of physical automaton under demonic control. This is pure speculation on my part, BUT Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons (i think) were both rumored to be trying to create a homonculous, that is a golem. This would explain the often robotic nature of the greys and why Betty Andreasson's aliens looked like clay to her, but again, it doesn't explain many other cases, and doesn't fit well over all.

Lastly, perhaps greys and other aliens are some sort of genetic chimera, to give demons a temporary body. I believe Darrell Simms, or someone on Montaldo's shows claimed they caught a grey by surprise and killed it with a samurai sword. Unbelieveable i know, but what up to this point about UFOs has been believable? Anyways, this guys dog ate part of it, and DIED several days later! He also had some of it sent for analysis and had some interesting results that i can't recall. Must have been really interesting.

So, hopefully this sheds some light on one aspect of UFOlogy. It's interesting to note that these "aliens" often say they don't reveal themselves because we would worship them as gods, yet thats what some are doing anyways. Not to mention, they are leading people away from the Bible and into false religions and cults. If they didn't want to affect our religions, then why are they? It's classic paganism/eastern mysticism.

For more information, there are a number of UFO sources to read, many of them biased. A decent one is Jim Marrs' "Alien Agenda." If you read it, make sure you put on the armor of God and pray as you read it. With the knowledge that UFOs are a plot of Satan, you'll find plenty of decent evidence of the reality of UFOs, but also evidence that they are not aliens, or of God, but demons and fallen angels with an agenda.

The last part of the book is quite New Agey, but the reports from remote viewers shed alot of light on some of Satan's schemes. Again, the book is deceptive, so make sure you go into it with God, and cling to Jesus.





Updat 2-2012


Russ Dizdar, shatter the darkness discusses ancient aliens


Pt1

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2012-02-06T16_43_12-08_00.mp3


Pt 2

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2012-02-07T16_41_15-08_00.mp3


Pt 3

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2012-02-08T20_53_41-08_00.mp3

Pt 4

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2012-02-09T16_26_07-08_00.mp3


Pt 5

http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2012-02-10T21_10_10-08_00.mp3

2012 Predictions

Here's my disclaimer. This is not an infallible prediction, nor is it a prophecy, or a "thus saith the Lord." This is me, making a haphazard crapshoot on what i think will happen in 2012. This is based on trends that i think i see. So, please feel free to comment and share your own thoughts and predictions.

This is all wild speculation, for fun, but also somewhat serious based on serious information and possibilities given the current situation.

I am not a prophet, don't stone me if i'm wrong.


1) First, politics. Boy is it ugly. My first thought is Obama's approval rating probably ain't that good, so unless he has an epic campaign again, i can't see him winning. The birth certificate thing, while However, given the republican line up, i think he'd probably win. Herman Cain seems to have been taken out. Donald Trump is a joke, and no one likes Newt.

Here's what i think. America is finally wising up to "the man" or the fact that our two party system is not only corrupt, it's unfixable. There's Occupy meetings everywhere, the TSA is getting out of hand, etc. etc.

So, remember how Obama was hyped up in the news media, then he got voted in? I think this is happening in the independent media for Ron Paul. He's being "shunned" by the mainstream press, which is building his street cred and anti-establishment mystique. He's also the darling of everyone who's fed up with everything. So, he'll build the grass roots support he needs, and that Ralph Nader fantasizes about.

And Ron Paul will become the next president, with Jesse Ventura as VP.

Together they'd be unstoppable. But even with those two in office, nothing would change. Which is why I'm writing in Captain America with Dante Forston's group.

If the right-left wing flapping keeps happening, expect the losing side to grow even more resentful. If repub wins, dems will complain, and so the opposite if Obama wins again.


2) Mayan Calender/Return of Nephilim gods, etc.

This one's a toughie. On one hand, you have not only the Mayan calender but other occult calenders "ending" in 2012 as well. At least according to Tom Horn. This is assuming that he hasn't done some creative number work to end up at this conclusion. He's also got some theories outlined in his book (Apollyon Rising). There are other Christians as well who feel that 2012 will have some interesting events including any number of things. One of the weirdest is a return of "the gods" (fallen angels/nephilim)

I don't know what to think. On one hand, you have a bunch of pagan and New Age sources, which are demonically inspired, pointing to some huge event in the next year. We all know the Bible forbids consulting mediums and fortune telling, etc.

On the other, you have Christians saying similar stuff, and sort of buying into it and putting a Christian spin on it.

I will concede that we are being conditioned to accept something amazing, perhaps like a "god". There's alot of movies (more than 300 movies since the 50's about aliens) and also stuff like Thor, X-men, and the Immortals. But does that mean fallen angels and/or nephilim are coming back? Does it mean 2012 will see that?

I don't know. I don't want to put any stock in demonic sources or science fiction. I think 2012 will have a definite increase in paranormal activity, and occult stuff. Probably more people getting demonized casually and deliberately. And more normalization of paranormal things.

Sadly, i think Christians will continue to get caught up in it. You wouldn't believe how many Christians are doing Yoga or Qigong. One of the most popular searches getting people here is "Christian qigong". There's also "Christian" people like Perry Stone selling books on new age dream techniques. So, more Christians getting into it.

2011 has seen a huge increase in interest in the paranormal. The last few years teen paranormal romance novels have taken off. Ghosthunters and UFO stuff is also off the hook.

So, this trend will continue, with many outside of the Church being drawn in, but also many in the Church will also add some occult to their faith. But i don't think there will be a culmination, or anything else to really worry about in 2012.


3) The Economy

I think the EU will probably dissolve. What i think will happen, based on nothing really, is that the economically strong nations of Europe will abandon the lesser nations and re-form into a ten state EU. Maybe this is the "beast" kingdom, maybe it's only meant to make us think it is. This is a wild shot out there.

I think America will default, unless we can keep things going until after the election. What this means? Lawlessness probably. Along with the persecution of Christians. Perhaps America will start to become a communist state. Better watch "If Footmen Tire you, what Will Horses do?"

Generally, i expect we'll see an increase in general lawlessness (I hope i'm wrong) for any number of reasons. The economy, black awakening (or similar kind of thing).


4) Christianity

I think some interesting things are coming to us. I think true believers will begin to see some persecution, while fringe stuff like Dominionism and "blab it and grab it" stuff will gain precidence.



5) World War III

The middle east is nearing a boiling point, we see wars and rumors of wars everywhere. Iran recently shot one of our drones down (supposedly). The whole region is poised for war. Alpert Pike/Manly P Hall said (I heard this on Future Quake long ago) that they needed 3 World Wars, then they could bring out their "world leader." Is it actually true? Who know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see an official escalation of war into Wolrd War III. Or perhaps we've been in it and have called it the war on terror. Just a thought.

WooT!

Hey all, no post this week. Anyway, there were two last week...

I've got a ton of stuff lined up, but I'm really slow. I suppose it would help to make things shorter. Well, regardless, i want to thank all of you readers for coming here so far. So far, there have been more than 11,000 hits here since we started writing! But this is not because of me, it's because I believe God led you here. I also pray that He has edified you in some way, and that I've been a stepping stone to Jesus, not a stumbling block.

Hopefully, if you're unsaved, you have become saved (or seeds were planted and God will grow them in your heart). If you've been a wandering believer, I hope you've been restored. If not, go listen to Russ Dizdar's podcasts. If you're right with God, praise God, I hope I've informed you with a Biblical Christian response to some of the weird stuff out there and not led you astray.


Lastly, special thanks to you all for getting me started:

Dr. Future, Tom Bionic, Michael Heiser, Chris White, The Gilberts, Russ Dizdar, LA Marzulli, Frank Lordi, and Gaz Parker.

Prophet for Profit Part II: Is Eckankar (Harold Klemp) really God's Messenger?

This one was mentioned recently on Lynn Dickie's "Set the Captives Free." They also seem to have some presence in all 50 states, including in my general vicinity. I see their fliers occasionally, and am not sure what to do about it.

Anyways, they sell themselves as the only way to God and/or enlightenment. They were founded by Paul Twitchell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Twitchell), sometime pulp writer (like L. Ron Hubbard). It seems he studied under some Hindu Guru, and Scientology, where he rose quite high in the ranks.

Scientology, founded by Hubbard, of course, has an undeniable link to dark occultism. Jack Parsons had a sort of love-hate with Hubbard, and they both practiced dark rituals. That's outlined in "Dark Mission" by Richard Hoaglund (pray up before reading that one). Hoaglund also ties both of them to Aleister Crowley, as sort of apprentices of his. So in essence, Eckankar is really the "grandson" religion of one of the most wicked men of the 20th century-Crowley.

Here's an article talking about someone discussing inaccuracies in the religion.

http://truthabouteckankar.blogspot.com/2007/06/chanhassen-newspaper-scratches-surface.html

So, sketchy origins rooted deeply in Hinduism, New Age and Scientology.

Looking through their site (which i won't link to) it's hard to find out what exactly they teach.

What i've discerned is they teach reincarnation, astral (soul, body) travel, and a few other odd things. They teach that the "Holy Spirit" is like an energy field.

They also teach that the eck teachings have been around basically through all human history with roots in the far east, yet no country claims to have originated it. I suppose if you count Hinduism, you could say that.

Well thats enough on the history.

Even though it's hard to find any really specific doctrine on their website, the Bible can shed some light on why Harold Klemp, or any "Eck Master" is really not a messenger of God. The Bible is very clear on what a true messenger of God will be like and also what a false teacher will be like. What God tells us through His word shows us that Eckankar (and its subsidiaries) are not His messengers, but rather false teachers.

Satan has no new tricks, which is how we can know the truth about Harold Klemp and Eckankar.


2 Corinthians 11:4

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receiveth another spirit, which ye have not received, or another Gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."


1 Galatians 8-9

"But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

"As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye received, let him be accursed."


Well, that about sums it up. We know the gospel is salvation through Jesus Christ alone. His death, atoning for our sins when we repent and accept Him. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God. (John 14:6)


Eckankar teaches they are the best road to God. He also teaches that Jesus is merely a good teacher and the one who leads us Christians to God/spiritual enlightenment. (1 John 4:1-3). Except that they must not know what Jesus taught. Jesus taught alot of things, and one of them was that He was the ONLY way to God. (http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/10/was-jesus-really-just-good-teacher-then.html)

So, strike one and two for Eckanisms and Mr. Klemp. Wrong on how to get to God, and COMPLETELY wrong about Jesus.

Another pop-out thing Eckankar/Klemp teaches, is to chant a certain word (which i won't repeat). This is also accompanied by internal visualizations. Visualization is a key element in New Age pracitces, i used to do it occasionally myself.

On their website, i noticed that they also teach chanting different words/letters for varying effects. Again, i'm not linking to it. In any event, as i understand it anyways, they think this brings them closer to God. It's not really praying i guess, but it would be an equivalent to prayer.

When we pray to God, it should be a conversation with God, and a time of praise, thanks and petition. Not repeated words, phrases or sounds. (Not to pick on Catholics, but this applies to you too when praying the Rosary.)

Here's what God says about how to pray. That's in addition to the prayer Jesus taught ("Our Father...")

Matthew 6:7

"When ye pray, use not vain repetitions as the heathen do: for they think they shall be heard for their much speaking."


Chanting, and repeating are often gateways into the occult, because it brings about an altered state of conciousness, which in turn brings contact with demonic beings. Of course Eckankar and Klemp call these spirit guides, a classic New Age feature. Strike three for Eckankar? Or perhaps a foul?

Spirit guides are another topic perhaps, but the short of it is this. They ALWAYS lead you further into yourself, or other strange methods that are supposed to help you attain a higher level. They also will teach you false things about Jesus.


1 John 4:1-3

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."


Of course no look at New Age/Hinduistic religions would be complete without reincarnation. Of course. Eckankar is no different. It's a lie Satan loves. After all, why worry about your actions and choices in this life when you can just set them right next time around? Except it doesn't work that way.

Hebrews 9:27-28

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."


One time's all you get. God is fair. He gives each person one chance to get it right. Would be fair for one person to get saved on their first life and another person 30 lives? Unless you're playing Super Mario, one life is all anyone gets.


This is all just a brief overview, but even from this it is plain to see that Harold Klemp is not God's messenger, nor will Eckankar lead you to anything eternal. At least not an eternity with God.

Paul T. didn't die for you. Harold Klemp will not die for you. Eckankar will not lead you closer to God, nor is the "Holy Spirit" they offer even close to God the Holy Spirit. Instead, they will string you along through countless initiations, probably taking your money and teaching you the lie that you are already divine.

I don't know about you, but i know i can't be divine i make far too many mistakes and treat people less lovingly than i should. I regret decisions i've made and the fact that i don't do more to help those suffering in need. If you or i are divine, why aren't we better?

Instead, why not turn to the real divinity. God, the true divinity, sent His Son Jesus to come. He came and died for our sins, though He shouldn't have. He also rose from the dead and has been glorified by God the Father. The REAL Holy Spirit will attest to what Jesus has done. He is the way, if you repent and turn your life to Him, He will set you free with out initiation. He will walk with you on your spiritual journey. He's already done the work, all you have to do is believe. Accept Him as Savior. Accept that He's dealt with your sin, and wants to draw you close.

Eckankar is a spiritual yoke of bondage to past lives, karma, initiations and mindless chanting (Which will bring new bondage: "spirit guides" aka, demonic oppression). The yoke of following Jesus Christ is His arm around you as He walks with you to God the Father. But you have to accept Him first.



Appendix:

For more on Eckankar:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Eckankar.html

They explained things much better than I.

It's the end of the world as we know it (again): Ezekiel 38 any day now?

***Disclaimer: Though i do my best to be accurate, and ask for God's leading, please don't accept everything i say as truth. I'm just some dummy with a little Bible knowledge and a blog. Rather, go and search the scriptures (Acts 17:10 and 11) to see for yourself what the truth is. My knowledge of Bible prophecy is far from expert level

Please let this bring you closer to Jesus. Be a stepping stone, and not a stumbling block. I don't care if I'm right or wrong, so long as it leads you to search the Bible, and get closer to Jesus Christ, our Messiah.
***





So, with Palestine seeking statehood, and the mideast seemingly about to erupt in chaos, Iran allegedly making nukes and Israel about to do something about it. Many folks, "prophecy experts", are warning that we're about to see not only the rapture, but the unfolding of the great tribulation and the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38, etc.

But are we?

The world seems pretty much against Israel, true, and there are signs protesting Israel in the most unlikely of places-like New York and London. Someone wrote "avenue Jew" on a wall in New York. Folks are believing the protocols of zion again. A libelous work promoted by Henry Ford (anti-semite, freemason) and disproved LONG, LONG ago.

So, there's a general climate check.


I'm going to get into wild speculation here, probably much of it based on the works of others, but i will do the best to share my own understanding.

First, i do believe there is still much Biblical prophecy to be fulfilled. I believe Lord Jesus Messiah will be returning soon (in the sense that He can come in ten minutes, or ten more years). I have studied Bible prophecy, loosely, for about 15 years and have believed that I will see the end times. I also believe that Revelation and the Bible have somethings yet to fulfill.

That said, the more i see current events, the more i see that Biblical prophecy IS unfolding. Of course i also become more confused on what i think i know, especially given the output of so-called "prophecy experts." Nothing against them mind you. They too see through the same glass darkly, and i believe their contributions are valuable. The belief in prophecy and Christ's imminent return is what helped bring me back from a major backslide. So here's my very crude, and ill researched attempt to unravel what i think is a hot and convoluted topic. Ezekiel 37, 38 and 39, and is it on the horizon.

Regardless, we must always be ready to stand before Jesus Christ, whether it be at His return, or our death.

The reason i bring this up is that Ezekiel 38 comes up alot in prophecy circles, and it sometimes seems that some think this is the very next thing on God's clock. Some speculate that chapter 37 is fulfilled already with the Jews arriving in the homeland.

This is actually a really old story, about Prime Minister Netanyahu declaring 37 fulfilled. I've heard it elsewhere, but this blog summarizes it nicely.

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/netanyahu-at-auschwitz-says-prophecies-of-ezekiel-37-have-been-fulfilled/

It's interesting to note that if Netanyahu really believed that, then he shouldn't be worried by threats of attack on Israel, because as I understand these 3 chapters, God keeps Israel safe anyways. Note also, that he points out that the key is a strong, militarized Israel, and not reliance on God's power. Reliance upon God (in my mind) might be a more secure option. And when did a prime minister become an expert on Bible prophecy?

At any rate let's see if Ezekiel 37 is actually fulfilled and if so, is Ezekiel 38 and 39 on the way?

Enough of my prattle. Here's the passages...thanks to Blue Letter Bible. You guys rock!


Ezekiel 36 - 38

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=36&v=1&t=KJV#1

Ezekiel 36 (for context)

Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made [you] desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and [are] an infamy of the people:

Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that [are] round about;

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all [their] heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that [are] about you, they shall bear their shame.

But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

For, behold, I [am] for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, [even] all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better [unto you] than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.

Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, [even] my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them [of men].

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou [land] devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations;

Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

Neither will I cause [men] to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols [wherewith] they had polluted it:

And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These [are] the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited.

Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it].

Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet [for] this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do [it] for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.

End Ezekiel 36


***
Ezekiel 37
***
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which [was] full of bones,

And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, [there were] very many in the open valley; and, lo, [they were] very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.

So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but [there was] no breath in them.

Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.

The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions:

And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou [meanest] by these?

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever.

Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

***End Ezekiel 37***


So, i don't have huge problems with 36 or 37 EXCEPT the part where it says God's will have a new spirit. The Jewish people, at this time, and by my understanding, do not yet have this new Spirit, which i believe to be a reference to God, the Holy Spirit.

We Christians do, and we are God's people by adoption (Romans 11) but as I understand Romans 11, tells us that we gentiles have access to salvation (to become God's people) through Jesus Christ. And that ALL OF ISRAEL will one day be saved (v 25 and 26) after the fulness of the gentiles.

So, Jews, at the moment, do not have this Spirit yet, and won't until all of us alloted gentiles are saved. Then, when they become saved, i believe that God will give them His Spirit, and also write His laws upon their hearts.

Netanyu says 37 is fulfilled because the Jews are back in the homeland. He's on the right track. The Jews are there, but not all of the Jews certainly. And as i understand it, the government of Israel is secular, so not even close to having a new Spirit.

Also note the last verse. The heathen (that's you and i and others) will acknowledge that God, has set Israel apart. I don't know abou you, but I don't see this right now, in fact the opposite is the more prevalent viewpoint. Some want to wipe Israel off the map.

Despite this lack of complete fulfillment of 37, i do recognize Israel's right to exist as a country, and believe that God may be moving them towards this fulfillment.

Now to the meat.

***

Ezekiel 38

And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, [that] at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know [it]?

And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; [Art] thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days [many] years that I would bring thee against them?

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face.

For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that [are] with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.

***End Ezekiel 38***


Revelation 20

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

***End Revelation 20***

I'm speculating here. Some folks say that Ezekiel 38 isn't fulfilled until AFTER the Millenial reign of Christ. I think this makes sense, especially since (unless i'm taking things out of context) Revelation 20 seems to parallel Ezekiel 38.

This would make sense if Revelation outlines the Great Tribulation, which most of us Christians think we'll escape through the Rapture and that the Tribulation will lead the Jews to accept Jesus as Messiah.

Again, this is all my understanding, based on the work of others, and what i understand from God's Word.

Of course, some good evidence is out there that Psalm 83 is a prophesy, and that it precedes the whole Ezekiel situation. I could buy that, but haven't done much homework there.

For those who are interested, Chuck Missler recently had a series that outlines all this. We're more or less on the same page, though i really think i need to go back into it all again and double check.

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/66-40/listen/11-14-2011-strategic-trends-2011-part-6-234711.html


So, based on my understanding of the famous Ezekiel prophecies, i don't believe they are on the horizon. Ezekiel 38, in my understanding of scripture is after the Millenial Rule of Christ. Even 37 isn't fulfilled as there are a number of things missing.

One theory i have, is that "They" or Satan want people to think Ezekiel 38 is coming up, and then after the dust settles, "They" will present their false messiah, the Mahdi and or the Antichrist. This is a scenario, IMO.

Whatever the case, events are heating up, and I think there is going to be some acceleration of events, and we may see some prophetic events unfold.

Whatever the case, we need to have urgency in sharing the Gospel, and we need to do our best to get right with God and submit ourselves to Him. We need to be ready to meet Him in the Rapture (soon? Or later on?) or if we meet an unfortunate event and see Him much sooner.

No matter what happens prophetically or not in current events, we will still need to give an account of ourselves before Christ. He saved us, if we accept it, but did we do everything we could to share the Good news with others?




Update 11-23-2011

So, along these lines, Chris White of Revelations Radio just addressed this as well. And there was no collusion between us. He does take a similar stance to me, but I would have linked it even if he disagreed with me. So here it is, a better summary of what I said above. It's about halfway through the show.


http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/enclosure/2011-11-18T11_15_24-08_00.mp3

Open Season: On Questions that is.

Hi all, this here post is the one to post/comment on for any random discussion or question. If you'd like to ask a question, just comment here.

Any other random thing should be here too please.

Thanks!

...Let God Sort'em Out Part II: More People Have Died in the Name of Religion Than Any Other Reason

I have heard from atheists, and others that "more people have been killed in the name of God (or religion, implying Christianity) than for any other reason." Let's be perfectly fair here, I’ve never challenged that, because I didn’t know.

I do know there have been atrocities (crusades, etc) committed in the name of God, though I would be of the opinion that God was not in favor of these. Even though I never argued, knowing there was some support for this data, I now realize one thing - there's rarely, if ever any proof offered of this. Where are the numbers?

It seems that this is often used as an excuse to reject Christianity and the Bible, and was often quoted to me by a hedonist who liked quoting Karl Marx's "religion is the opiate of the masses." Ironically, he was addicted to the true opiate of the masses - television. He also smoked marijuana. Who's the real addict here?

Before we even start, I have already addressed the previous "genocides" perpetrated by the Israelites in the Bible. So we won't go into that here. If you're losing sleep over that, go read them after this. (http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/09/wipe-outall-of-them-why-would-good-and.html) and (http://dontaskthatinchurch.blogspot.com/2011/09/wrath-of-god-is-god-really-genocidal.html)

Alright everyone who uses the "religion has killed..." excuse, let's put your money where your mouth is. Figuratively. Let's take a look at the causes of death to humanity (by people killing each other for various causes), and see what adds up to more. If you're right, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you're wrong, then maybe you should give God and the Bible another chance.


Facts

Abortion. First, it's murder. If unkilled, a fetus will become a baby human. Period. The only difference between a baby, and a human outside the womb is:

Size
Level of development and dependency

Fetuses have hiccups, heart beats, body parts, etc. What else does? A human being.
Killing a human being outside the womb for being small is absurd. Killing someone because of their level of development/dependency is also frowned upon and rightly so. No sane, rational person goes around killing people smaller than themselves or the mentally disabled. Anyone who does, goes to jail and becomes a pariah.

That's why if someone hurts a pregnant woman, and she miscarries, they can go to jail (assuming she wanted to keep the baby).
Anyways, we're not discussing IF abortion is murder or not. Leviticus 18:21, God spells out clearly that killing a baby is murder. And for the purposes of this discussion, it is considered murder.

If you disagree, skip ahead or provide factual data that proves a fetus is not a human being.
In America, since 1973 there have been about 50 million babies murdered in the womb. That's almost 10 times the number of Jews killed by Hitler in the Shoah.
http://prolifeaction.org/faq/abortion.php
Worldwide, the number is 42 Million PER YEAR.

http://prolife.org.ohio-state.edu/Facts.htm

If that number has stayed constant (which it probably hasn't) since 1973, that's 1,596,000,000. That one and a half BILLION. Certainly, these people weren't murdered in the name of God, but rather the sake of convenience.

Hitler, whether it be to furnish his ideal "Aryan" race, and eliminate those who didn't measure up, or if you consider that he was sacrificing Jews, etc. for a luciferian agenda, here's the round numbers.

6 Million Jews
500,000–1.2 million Serbs (killed by Croat Nazis)
200,000–800,000 Roma & Sinti (Gypsies)
200,000–300,000 people with disabilities (or you could say those not as "developed" or people who were dependent)
80,000–200,000 Freemasons
100,000 communists
10,000–25,000 homosexual men
2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006050806108

All said and done, probably more than 8 million people died at the hands of Hitler's regime. Another source you'll see in a minute, puts the total at 12 million.

Well, Hitler was crazy, right? So how about other dictators. Surely they can't approach the insatiable bloodthirst of those killed "in the name of God". Before we see what a menace to the world Christians are, let's take a look at what happens just when people are killed by governments. We won't hit every dictator on the list though.

Chairman Mao - 50 to 70 million
Stalin - 23 million, i've heard up to 30.
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo) 8 Million
Japan (Civilians in WWII. I don't know if this counts the Nanking massacre) 5 million
Turkey (Armenians, and others) - about 2.5 million
North Korea's communist regime - more than 1.2 milliohn

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html


The high end of this number is around 130 Million (including Hitler's 12) and that's not all the ones on the list. But i don't think we could count any of these as killed by "Christians" or in God's name. Rather, these were all killed for political or ethnic reasons.

Communism Alone
"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression" gives a good set of numbers for just those killed when all belief in God is not only expelled, but punished by death or torture. Let's take a look at what a God-free, atheist utopia can do. After all, if God's followers have killed more than any other cause, the good ol' commie deathtolls should be quite low. After all, they're not trying to please God, so they shouldn't want to kill anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism


Well, we already saw Mao and Stalin at about 70 to 100 Million between the two of them. The book gives about 94 million.

From the wiki:
(65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1.7 million in Africa
1.5 million in Afghanistan
1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
1 million in Vietnam
150,000 in Latin America
10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power." )

Communist Utopias, with their absence of God have killed a lot of people, so this must mean that those killed in the name of God must be at LEAST 200 Million, or 2 BILLION if you count abortions, which I'm counting them, because i believe God is.

Well, let’s see how many have died “in God’s name.” We don’t include those humans who were and are sacrificed to pagan gods. Sorry Aztecs, Mayans, Canaanites, etc. We’re also not including how many people have been killed by Muslims or Hindus. Mainly because people who argue this have a beef with Christians. In any event, My personal thought is that Muslims and Hindus combined haven’t killed even as many people as Hitler, let alone Communism. I’m also going to exclude Christians who are killed by various folks martyred, but will put some of those stats in the appendix.

Killed "in the name of God" that is, by "The Church" or alleged Christians

A disclaimer here. While a portion of individual Catholics i will concede may be saved and true Christians, i don't think we can include all of the elements in leadership, especially through the centuries. Those who ordered the Crusades, the inquisition were not following the Bible, and thus not God's will. Pope John Paul even formally apologized for some of that. Afterall, Jesus didn't say to spread His name at the sword's point.

Constantine was allegedly told by a vision (by a spirit he didn't test) to go and conquer. Nowhere did this vision prove itself to actually be of God. He either made it up, or was fooled by Satan to kill people under the guise of Christianity. I highly doubt God would have told him to conquer. So, was he a Christian? I can't judge his heart. But his actions cause me to question.

But, for the sake of argument, let's give you the numbers of those killed "in the name of God".

It's hard getting good numbers on this, so i'll go through a few different ones.

Total for the crusades, inquistion (over 200 years!) and other "witchcraft" kinds of things. This author says about 264,000. He's also got a really good point, (like i mention above) not everyone who says they are a Christian, or says that they are following God actually are. The pews are also filled with "Christians" but how many of us actually are? How many are there for social or other reasons?

Also, look at the Norway shooter. The media called him a Christian, yet there's no real evidence that he actually is a true Christian, especially in light of what Jesus taught and lived about violence. Anyways, the link.

http://www.newscholars.com/papers/Killing,%20Christianity,%20and%20Atheism.pdf
This author gives about 100,000 people-all time-killed by alleged Christians.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080829095434AAuK2UD

Here's a new agey/neo pagan website that looked promising for stats at first, but fell apart quite quickly for me.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

They make a lot of complaints about Christian murderers, and pagans being unjustly killed. They mention a number of examples, with “thousands killed” or “tens of thousands massacred” and these are indeed horrific, yet give very few actual numbers and no total.

Not to mention that some of these groups doing the massacres don’t seem all that Christian to me. I can't speak to the faith of those who committed these atrocities, but contrasted with the true Christians in the book of Acts, I'd suggest that those who killed these pagans and other poor folks had their hearts far away from God. That is, they were killed by people falsely representing the God of the Bible. But that should be no surprise.

Additionally, the stats on this site are way off, one example that author gives is a total of “80000 Turks massacred” during the battle of Belgrad. Oddly, they neglected to mention is that the Turks were INVADING Hungary. They were the aggressors. Secondly, the Turks had a (presumably) seasoned army of 30,000 – 100,000 troops. Wiki lists them as receiving casualties of only 13,000. Meanwhile, the “menacing” Hungarians had around 4,000 actual soldiers that were armed and trained and a “motley” army of 60,000. That’s 60,000 nobodies fighting for their lives for probably the first time ever.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Belgrade_(1456)

Here’s a relevant scripture.

"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. "

2 Timothy 3:2 - 5


"[Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men."

Matthew 15:7 - 9

Suffice it to say, these people may have thought they were acting “for God”, but in actuality were doing the bidding of the political movers and shakers who happened to have been a part of the Catholic or Holy Roman Church. Just because the "Church" a Pope or a "Christian" king ordered the killing of a group "in the name of God", doesn't actually mean that God Himself endorsed or approved it, or that those people actually have given their lives to Christ.

Look at George Bush, he lied about his conversion (supposedly converted by talking to Billy Graham, though Graham doesn't remember this). He also went on to start 2 wars. Somehow I don’t think you’d see Jesus, the Apostle Paul, Corrie Ten Boom, or Richard Wurmbrand. In fact, Paul condoned killing of people BEFORE he was a Christian, then afterward let people beat him!

This is why when Jesus warned us “let no one deceive you” He wasn’t kidding. He likely knew that folks would come around and use God as an excuse to kill. A true follower of Christ would not have went along with any violence that a Church or government ordered.

Saying that more people have died “in the name of God” or were killed by Christians because the Church/Theocratic government ordered it makes about as much sense as saying that actors are criminals because of shenanigans like Winona Rider’s shoplifting or what Pee-Wee Herman did.

Here’s a good article that summarizes the above point. That sinful humans are using religion to fulfill their own evil agendas. I strongly recommend that you read the whole article, and forward that to anyone who says religion has killed more than…

www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atrocities.html

Here’s the numbers he used for those killed by “Christians” (actually land/power grabs).

Crusades – 1,000,000
Aztecs – (unclear if he means sacrificed by the Aztecs or killed by conquistadors. I assume the latter) 1,000,000
The Inquisition – 350,000
Albigensian Crusade – 200,000
Witch Hunts – 100,000
So wrapping up here’s the “score”.


Killed “in the name of God” – 250,000 – 1,650,000 people. (This is based on the earlier number I had and the recent article. Of these, I would say none have been killed by true Christians, but rather the visible “Church” and political entities, of which, the Church was a part.

Killed for any other reason – 1.6 Billion people have been killed because they were unwanted. This is either by a political party or a parent. That’s well above small amount killed by “God’s followers.” Even taking away abortion we’re left with 130 million killed by dictatorships of various sorts. Or if you prefer, Communism alone has killed probably 100 Million, ten times more than those who claim to follow God


Appendix:
I won't concede that many true, Spirit filled, Bible believing Christians have killed anyone, or even COULD kill anyone. The more we grow in faith, the less attractive violence becomes, even "justified" violence. Listen to Corrie Ten Boom's testimony, or read Richard Wurmbrand's "tortured for Christ" or Wilkerson's "the Cross and the Switchblade". Those are how true Christians react to violence.

If you can give more numbers of those killed "in God's name," (Crusades, Inquisition, etc.) please give me an event, a number and a source, and i'll add it.

Fred Hartley said in his book "Prayer on Fire" that in the "1980's, 270,000 Christians were martyred every year." He also quotes a number of 500,000 dying for believing in Jesus the Messiah every year. So in one year, twice as many are killed for believing in Christ than those killed by alleged Christians during the crusades, witchhunts and inquisition combined over a several hundred year period.
Voice of the martyrs gives a much lower, though still alarming number at their site. It's a good look at the extent of persecution faced by Christians right now.

http://persecutedchurch.blogspot.com/2009/04/limits-of-statistics.htm